vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
118032-why-are-people-so-negative-on-here
Content ---- ---- ---- Having been on these forums since around headstart fairly regularly, and being one of the forums' most frequent posters, and having been present for nearly all phases of this game's launch and post development... ... very rarely. People on here usually aren't happy. Worse, they tend to be rather obnoxiously unhappy. I think it's the curse of the internet, that people forget how to make coherent points and to evoke praise and criticism in equal measure so they get what they want and change what they don't want. Me? I just finally got home. I'm installing the patch now. I'm bouncing around excitedly. And all I'll be doing once I get in is building stuff on a housing plot. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Yeah, we can look fondly back on the days when the game still had a subscription fee instead of being f2p. | |} ---- QFT | |} ---- Thus is life on the Wildstar forum. | |} ---- ---- ---- I'm kinda wondering where the need for these UI changes came from, too. Some of them seem really strange, like changing the directions for the arrows in the advanced housing controls...Why was that necessary? :huh: | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Its the internet happy comes here to die. | |} ---- Unless you're me. ^-^ I love being happy :D Anyways so far what I've seen of Drop 3 is great, just a few bugs I can work around. Sure I won't be getting any housing items off the AH (or CE) for a while, but eh that's okay I'll wait. My character has new emotes and her dyed gear is all pretty again..! And it feels smoother to me. Love it! | |} ---- We were? If you look at everything that was said to by carbine, they in fact told us the truth and have been nothing but open and honest about everything. Just because your bitter doesn't mean you need to say crap like that. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Yes, actually, we were lied to. We were promised monthly updates, holidays, and client optimizations that never happened. Just because they openly reneged on their promises, doesn't mean they weren't lying to us. It's like going to a restaurant after seeing a hamburger commercial and then when you get there, they say "sorry, you're getting a hot dog instead" . | |} ---- ---- Chua think should be happy got hot dog and not grinded hot dogs in hamburger form and then told is hamburger. Carbine been open and honest about changes. Should be more understanding and happy is getting something at all. | |} ---- Actually if you listened to what they said, they clearly stated that if monthly updates didn't work they wouldn't do them but their plan was to try and get out updates monthly. Almost they NEVER promised us anything. | |} ---- ---- I have a ticket up, yes. Although it should be mentioned that the latter in my post was to be taken with a grain of salt, seeing as I posted the ticket today, although several hours ago now, I guess 11-12 hours ago. Still waiting. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I wonder how backlogged CS is right now with the 2FA stuff. A lot of people coming back, and they run into the wall of their own protection because they changed phones or hardware. Hope they get it fixed for you fast. | |} ---- It makes me bitter, I had hoped these kinds of issues would be the kind that was fixed within a much shorter time. | |} ---- Of all issues, breaking your security is usually the one that takes the longest because it's the one that's not meant to be easily broken. That said, I kind of hope in the future they give us 2FA tokens instead of having us put them on phones or computers. I have tokens for a few games, and by WoW one is still surviving. It also doesn't suffer the same problem phones and computers have of keeping track of the seed code. | |} ---- ---- I've not being GIVEN anything, I'm grinding CRED for a service and in return, I'm receiving...Well, let's ask Carbine themselves what I'm receiving... Why should I be grateful to receive what the developers themselves think of as an antiquated service model? Actually, if you stopped white knighting for a second and did a simple Google search, you would find a bevy of promises that were never delivered upon. | |} ---- I've seen reports of client optimizations actually happening and improving people's FPS. | |} ---- I believe it was John Lennon who famously said "Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans." Okay, so Carbine said some things about what they were going to do. Stuff didn't happen in quite the way they intended. Promises broken. Okay, so what? So cupcakin' what? Really. I'll just sit and wait. Yeah, okay so it didn't work out the way they would have liked. Point granted. Now what? What PRECISELY do you want them to do? Just ... give up? Say, "eh, we blew it, might as well pack it in boys and hit the dusty trail." They could do that. Might still do that. Who knows? Or, just throwing this out there. Maybe they could apply themselves and try to set things straight as best they can. Seems reasonable. What YOU have to do is decide what this means to you and you alone. Grow up. Make an adult decision. If their broken promises mean you can never trust them again, why are you here? The rational result of that decision is to go away, apply your time and energies to causes and pastimes that fulfill you better. All this troll noise is irrational and useless. If you think there's reason for them to keep working. Hang around. See what results. I'm sure they will appreciate your patience. Maybe they pack it in and hit the dusty trail. Maybe they make something amazing. There really is no other outcome to the discussion. | |} ---- Alright please show me. | |} ---- Actually, I think it's us that's the problem. I bolded and reddened the portion of your post I'm talking about. There's a MAJOR piece of the puzzle you're missing there. Games today aren't games of 20 years ago. Games of 20 years ago had bugs (looking at you, Zelda floor crashing bug), but those games were a million times simpler than what we have now. Like, actually, a million times simpler. Games have grown in orders of magnitude not just in size, but in complexity. It's not a matter of build quality v build speed, but a simple matter of the games simply being so damn big. It's a bit like wondering why cars aren't more reliable now, it must be a decrease in quality. It's not, it's because at the heart of many automobiles is a hunk of metal parts containing a chain reaction of small explosions that has gotten more and more complicated in order to reduce fuel consumption, reduce emissions, increase effective power, reduce weight, and provide new amenities. Essentially, it would be like wondering why, after over a hundred years of the internal combustion engine, nobody can make a car that doesn't break after your GPS fritzes. A lot of the technology they're trying to deal with wasn't even around 20 years ago, and even if people don't make mistakes, bugs can happen. And people do make mistakes. That said, they're dealing with a few issues. Gardens, their subscription renewal, gadget slot not showing up cosmetically, crashes, and a few other things. Compare that just to Sabotage, and that's a drastic improvement in build quality. Hell, compared to what we were dealing with ten years ago in MMORPGs, Wildstar is an ironclad juggernaut of quality. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a perfect drop that nothing ever breaks in, that everything is perfect in, and that we have developers that never overlook anything. I'm just saying that I don't expect it. In fact, I rarely expect things to function this well even from much larger companies. A day after and pretty much everything's hotfixed and good to go? I really don't feel like I have anything to complain about. Well... I really don't, since I haven't really run into anything yet. This drop has been nothing but positive for me. That's insane considering we're talking about games that are running up into the 20-30 gig range just on the client side compared to games back in the day which were a couple kb. I don't think most players are even aware of what's sitting in their hands when they get onto computers or are even aware of what happens at a place like Carbine. People saw that graphics went from blocky 2d sprites to giant 3d immersive environments, from single players on cartidges to online games hosting thousands of people, that they understand. They don't often understand what happens on the back end, all the intricate parts being handled, and how it all links together. Coupled with the megaserver implementation (which, let's face it, was essentially part of this patch), Carbine's done an incredible job with their build quality. I'm certainly not going to whinge about not being able to see the icon for my gadget in its slot for a few days (I honestly didn't even notice whether it was there or not), or a few hours of server stability because of a character with corrupted information I was at work for and completely missed. I'm well aware of what's going on behind the curtains, and the fact that text chat fading "too quickly" is the kind of thing we're sneering down our nose about. Maybe some people are bitter about it, but I'm pretty damn impressed by the drop so far. It's a LOT less buggy than Sabotage. It's up to the devs whether that's necessary again. If they're aiming for January for drop 4, that's about two month wait. We'll see if they can swing that without the additional bug fixes they had to put in this one. | |} ---- I will never, ever, understand how people construe this as "being lied to." They changed their mind. It happens. Games change direction. New leadership comes in and decides that monthly content releases is ridiculous (I thought so, anyway) and too difficult, so they decided to go with quarterly, and giving less buggy content. I still see quarterly CONTENT updates being better than any other game out there is offering, so yeah, it's not monthly, but it's still pretty darn often. And it doesn't mean they lied to you. They delivered what they said they would, and realized it was bad, really bad, and rethought it. Much like the rune system and other systems that have changed since launch. | |} ---- I would, but I want strawberry, and they only had raspberry... :p Though on a serious note, people will always find things to complain about. They want something brand new for their next game, then complain that it's not the same as before. They want to stay true to the series, then they complain that the new game is just more of the same. Some people will NEVER be happy, no matter what. The problem is that since we have the internet now, people say what they want to whoever they want about whatever they want. Even if they aren't really disappointed about the game at all, they love telling everyone how bad it is anyway. It's called growing up. People lie to you all the time for some reason or other. That's not always a bad thing, or even intentional. Carbine might have "lied", as you say, or they might have made a few promises too many they couldn't keep. Take Sims 4, for instance. People whined that they didn't get swimming pools, ghosts and more career choices at launch. Now that ghosts and swimming pools have been added for free, people STILL complain about it. And more career choices are coming too - for free, of course. But that wasn't there at launch, so EA is the worst company in history, the game was broken beyond repair, everyone hate it and bla bla bla. People complain just to complain. | |} ---- "Do I look fat in this?" "Yep." | |} ---- Yes it is, every time. Integrity is something earned and revered. Something the white knighter's defending this game seem to overlook or could care less about because they lack honesty and integrity and can whitewash away all the bad with their thick blinders. | |} ---- "You know I'm not going to answer that kind of question" | |} ---- As a helpful tip for all the men out there, when you're married, THIS IS NOT THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION! | |} ---- Friedrich Nietzsche once said "I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you." So, two things now happen... 1. As a consumer, I and others use our rights to express our pleasure or displeasure with a product in the appropriate forum if we choose to. 2. The true villains of the forums come out of the woodwork and attack because they can't possibly fathom that people will have opinions that differ with theirs. I've never once said that people are wrong for praising the game. However, if I point out that people do, in fact, have just cause for not praising the game(notice that I have never said anything negative about Wildstar), the Carbine justice warriors come out of the woodwork. | |} ---- You're on a forum. Everything you've said works in reverse. You are free to come to the forum and express your displeasure however you'd like. "Forum warriors" (I'm assuming people who decide to respond without agreeing with you in this case) are just as entitled to criticize that feedback, find fault with it, respond that your feedback is not helpful, und so weider. Considering most people are here talking about things like gardens, the gadget spot not looking like it's there (even though it's there and it works), and other minor issues, I'm pleased by this drop. Not only would that put them above what I'd consider standard for the industry in a quarterly drop, I'd consider that better than both of their previous drops. | |} ---- ---- Nietzsche could have been the Walrus, but he probably would still have to bum rides off of people. Naturally your #1 is correct. Nominally the forums exist to foster healthy debate and interchange of ideas. Your second assertion feels rather sanctimonious to me, as if you are setting up a conflict that doesn't need to exist, and putting yourself on the side of righteousness. Your creation of the phrase "Carbine justice warriors" likewise seems like a dog whistle with similar intent. Expressing an opinion is fine. However once that opinion is expressed, then what? If you want to engage in debate, fine. However if you are such a fan of Nietzsche, surely you are familiar with the concept of futility. Unless both sides in a debate are working with the same value system, truly trying to change the mind of the other is useless. PC A: Look, bugs. Carbine said on MM1-DD1-YYYY1 that they would deliver X to us and they did not. PC B: That bug does not affect me. Carbine said on MM2-DD2-YYYY2 that they would deliver Y to us and they did. This is endless. It is futile. One person feels like they are not getting value. The other person feels like they are getting value. They are both correct because they are debating from different value sets. There is no conflict. So... express your opinion. You have the right to. At the point at which the opinion is expressed it is futile to continue (Carbine will have paid whatever attention to your comment they believe it is worth) and make your decision as to what to do with your time and energy. Those that feel like there is no value in attending to Wildstar can go do what they like. Those that feel like there is value in attending to Wildstar can continue playing. Everyone wins. EDIT: Too many nominals :-) Edited November 12, 2014 by Remillard | |} ---- Baloney. Technology has evolved but it's mostly been at the graphical level. The size inflation you're pointing out is mostly art assets. That and we're not hand coding in assembler to eke out enough performance for things to be playable. Games development should be quite a bit easier, which is kinda my point. The reason things are still in such a sorry state is that the vast majority of development shops build everything from scratch when perfectly usable pre-built modules exist. Ignoring the predilection of NIH-syndrome, the other failure is code quality. It's provably bad and provably getting worse. Ask anybody that's looked at the stock chat addon. Poor analogy. On the whole, cars are significantly more reliable than they used to be due in no small part to global competition. If we had to compare the two industries, the computer games industry is the equivalent of the US auto industry around the 70's (awful). The US auto industry had a serious pain point when the former laughingstocks of the Japanese auto industry completely leapfrogged their quality. Software engineering has evolved but the computer games segment keeps turning its nose up at recognized best practices. I'm still somewhat astonished that somebody emphasizing quality over squeezing every last cent out of their players hasn't emerged. | |} ---- Usually gaming companies don't "lie". Sometimes they can't deliver because of technical issues (and then they should state it), but it's still not the most common case. Usually people think they've been lied to when what is delivered isn't what they expected. If a devs says "ok i'll look into X and see if there are any issues" that doesn't mean he'll find issues, he may think it's ok and fine, if you disagree well ultimately you're not the person in charge. If a dev says they're going to "improve Z" that doesn't mean it's going to be your way. And yet people call devs liars when they change stuff but not the way they want. | |} ---- Well, people, I think, forget their manners. And they forget what manners are for. You're more likely to get the things you want if you're well-toned and respectable than if you're arrogant and insulting. More importantly, I think people forget that, if you don't say what you like, you can't complain if they change it because someone didn't. We've had that happen a few times, when people suddenly come to the forums and say, "WHY DID YOU CHANGE THIS?! WHO WAS COMPLAINING?!" A lot of people were complaining, in most cases. That's why I come to the forums and tell Carbine what I like and don't like, and I'm as respectable as I can be doing both. I really don't want to lose the stuff I like about this game because I didn't voice my opinion, positive or negative. Especially with the negative, it's important to be constructive and offer solutions, because if Carbine doesn't pick the solution you want, you've got no room to complain if you didn't have a better idea. | |} ---- When Frost and friends said before launch in explicit terms that they justified the sub model in this day and age of MMO's as a premium service not unlike HBO where you are paying for quality monthly content updates and that the quarterly or 6 month model is a dinosaur of the past.... and then you fail to live up to your sales pitch and switch to the very thing you were slamming to begin with... some people would call that living the lie. Others would say they failed to live up to their promises and could not meet a goal. Either way, the consumer is the one hurt in the process. And a good deal MANY consumers voted with their wallets and left in the last 3 months. A whole lot of them. | |} ---- ---- ---- This is actually a more interesting discussion than "who put out press release when and what they said." From a professional viewpoint, you are not wrong, however it's not just the "computer games" segment. Best practices take awhile to develop, especially when the result is soft. For example, we can look at hardware ESD protections and say "it is best practice to always handle ESD sensitive electronics at a static certified workbench with routinely monitored grounding checks, and in relative humidity greater than 40%". This is a hard best practice. If you don't follow this, you can quite easily get dead electronics. You'd think this hard nosed best practice would be engrained in a profession of this age. It mostly is, but I have still worked at places that took it more casually, and other places that treated this as a proclamation that is more holy than . Now, imagine a SOFT best practice, in a much younger industry, and one that is frequently beset by "Management Fad of the Year". The line of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable gets a LOT fuzzier. Anecdotally, my own firm flirts with Agile development. It's considered best practice in several venues. It has had some good results here, but doesn't seem to stick and requires a lot of tweaking to work with our products and engineers. It's best practice to have a 100% turnkey regression test for all firmware designed. Do I have a 100% turnkey regression test for all the firmware I design? No. It'd be nice, but I cannot get allocated the time and resources required to create this. We have levels of testing that our management and engineering have at least tacitly nodded our heads up and down and said "this will work". It's all VERY relative. Would I (if I were in charge) permit this for developing for mission critical systems such as aircraft? No (and thankfully the FAA doesn't either and asserts its regulatory power here firmly). Does it work for our products? Presumably (more of something handled by our sales and FAE's but I'm told customers are happy). It'd be nice to fantasize that there was the One True Way but it just isn't so. As for complexity, you are also not wrong, but it's not the whole picture. While engineers are not coding at machine level most of the time (though when you dig into the issues that affected Intel uP versus AMD uP performance, it's quite clear that there are nuances extremely close to the metal that require attention) the systemic complexity is a lot higher. For example, my own thoughts on how they would go about writing quests. You have varied groups of people accessing internal content in a variety of ways, and varied groups producing that content. So, you've got coder guy A. He's making an object class of things that can be clicked using the rhythm method. This object can be activated from X distance away and returns a successful result when the pattern matches. Introduce coder guy B. She's responsible for the mechanics of a PC moving through the game world, and responsible for passing input from the client to the widget, verifying it is X distance away before permitting this. Introduce artist C. He's responsible for drawing art that gets linked in the database with any widget that content developer D creates. Content developer D is writing the quest text, setting up the quest logic, rewards, text, linking to database art, linking to known and created activateable widget types. This is systemic complexity. Everyone's individual toolset and skillset is focused and not inherently complex. Linking all these together as a system creates extremely difficult to predict failure modes. I would LOVE to find out how their internals work just purely for my own curiosity. I love understanding systems and diagnosing what works and doesn't work, and finding ways to make everything better. I'm an engineer, that's what I do, not just in game. For legal reasons I'm sure Carbine plays this pretty close to the chest and no surprise. I've been gratified when they do show what's going on, but I'm realistic. Anyhow, point being, software systems have the potential to be extremely complex, and best practices are in the eye of the beholder quite frequently. The two to combine something that is as much black magic as science :-). | |} ---- Been there done it myself although I didn't lose the device, just didn't have access to it. I got a response to this after I'd sorted it myself too which was handy!! Should definitely be a way to reset it through my account section. | |} ---- ---- I don't know...lemme jog around the back and look.... | |} ---- Oh, that's where you're wrong, and exactly what I'm talking about. Wildstar isn't just graphically different from a game like WoW (and that was ten years ago in its own genre), the entire back end of the game is completely different. There's a surface reading of the game because that's what you can see (especially with the UI, which is meant for you to play around with it), but Wildstar is a far more complicated animal than WoW in pretty much every respect. Tooltips are at least relatively similar, but in Wildstar, for example, you can have completely different stats on the same piece of gear. To make that happen, a whole slew of back-end processes need to be able to list not just (item X) and allow the server to tell it what item X is, but also its very different stat balancing, weighting. etc. So what lists to the UI as just simple information and looks, to your average gamer, like just another piece of gear, that's a VERY different loot system to the games that came before it. There are other complications in that vein. Instanced servers built on Wildstar's new megaserver package weren't even possible before, and that technology isn't easy to maintain. The amount of moving parts necessary to maintain your housing plot as a zone, not a personal instance that no one else can visit, with all the custom bits and pieces you can put down, harvest, use for challenges, use for crafting, etc. might seem relatively banal. It's not. That means that everyone who jumps into their house is calling up a zone instance. Carbine has already said that they don't have hard-coded instances, it's a completely fluid system that "dials up" a new instance of a zone whenever it's called to do it. That's an INCREDIBLY complicated piece of coding work just to have that function. They're NOT getting easier. The things we want as gamers are getting more and more complicated. Your car may still run (Wildstar isn't crashing for days on end like WoW's servers used to) but all the little peripheral things we take for granted are supported by some exceptionally complex software. Programming a bit for the UI is child's play compared to just figuring out why the gadget icon isn't appearing the way it should, because that could happen in a half dozen bits of code required to just make it pop up on the UI. That's why it's so far down on the list of things to fix; they're having issues with players with corrupted information attempting a login and crashing the whole server, and that's a FAR deeper and more complicated issue, also one that's a lot more important. But it's rare that anyone takes that into account. What looks, on the surface, to be something simple that has existed for a long time in other games is actually incredibly complex and delicate in execution once you're into the nuts and bolts of the system. The UI package fits neatly into a folder on the client side for use by amateur programmers to build on; it's absolutely infinitesimal compared to the vast lake of code required to make the game run beneath it on the client, and that's nothing compared to what needs to happen on Carbine's end to operate the thousands of clients on the server side. Like the supposed vast ancient Arabic world was one of seven held in the hands of an angel, which stood on a huge mountain, which sat on the back of a bull, which rode on the back of an enormous fish in the sea of infinity, what we can see and touch as players and even UI programmers is a very small sum of the code. And even the UI coders can't make everything work perfectly. They all have known issues. Imagine what Carbine devs wade through in their game code every single day if a single amateur coder, admirable though his or her labor is, can't get a chat pane to display in an instance without causing a UI error without incident. Wildstar, and MMORPGs like it, are huge, resource-heavy games that are built using technology that looks and operates somewhat apparently like things that came before, but modern games are monstrous and often have to be built on custom code just to function the way the developers need them to. So, no, it doesn't surprise me at all that games have bugs, especially MMORPGs and especially MMORPG content patches the day of the drop. The fact that people are lamenting the gadget slot not displaying correctly or resource nodes not functioning for a day until a hotfix is applied seems pretty damn successful to me, considering Carbine just essentially re-written the ways server work, fixed a hundred pages of bugs in their code, and managed to give us two previously planned content drops, all in three months. Nothing's going to be perfect, but if the bugs people are talking about is the extent of the bugs in this drop, what seems inadequate and poor to you absolutely amazes me. That would make this one of the most bug-free content patches I've ever played in any MMORPG if what I've heard is the extent of their supposedly shoddy mistakes. That car analogy rings true. People are complaining that their car is broken and badly made because the A/C's environmental control doesn't keep the car cooled to the specific temperature they set, and instead is a few degrees off. It's not like the game's not functioning, it's doing brilliantly at the moment. Games aren't somehow worse off than something like an operating system (believe me, Windows has to update to fix more than any game you've ever played) or even the software for things like airplanes (which actually do receive regular updates and keep logs of the computer crashes and errors). We only notice them in games because they do them very often, they do them for us, and they tell us about them in very public places. And since you're not flying the plane, you don't see when a pilot has to fly manually when something in their software fails in midair, but you can see if your gadget icon is missing. People just don't really understand the huge jumps in technology that got us here and how much of it's brand new. It's not just what you see that's gotten more complicated, it's everything that goes behind it to make you see it work. That's beyond your casual gamer, who only really sees results and isn't necessarily aware of what's going on behind their UI. These big behemoths of games have a lot more moving parts than Mario Land did, and even Wildstar is a vastly more complicated monster than WoW to give us all the things we appreciate about it. Do you ever wonder where your telegraphs come from? How they're applied, how the game knows where to lay them, how it knows you're in them, how it keeps you from cheating, how it keeps the information synchronized between you and everyone else in your instance, how the server applies the damage and times your escapes? I mean, really try to follow the entire process to see what the most simple action in this game's play, just hitting or being hit by something? And how that's different than the way WoW checked range, checked direction, and applied damage? Even the little things are exponentially more complicated on the back end. | |} ---- Heh... I suppose my usage of the "best practices" phrase is a bit less trendy. I mean things like "Uses source code control. Has actually taken a college level data structures and algorithms course. Doesn't use the database as IPC. Doesn't use ini files when a database is obviously appropriate." Development methodology (Agile, et. al.) absolutely requires buy-in from all levels of an organization otherwise you just get chaos. | |} ---- People are forgetting that bugs can be very difficult to replicate at times as well, I've seen no bugs at all so far unless you count an addon or two. My gadget wasn't even bugged when I Iogged in, worked fine and has since yesterday. | |} ---- Yeah, and sometimes you'd be amazed what people do and don't notice. I'm assuming my gadget isn't displaying correctly; I didn't even look. Since I fire it up on my overdrive cooldowns (since they share one), I never even look at my gadget slot in combat, much less when I'm not fighting. I actually logged in and played last night, but I'm taking as read that my gadget must not be showing up correctly because even though it's right in front of me the whole time, I never even look at it. | |} ---- ---- ---- And they wouldn't have gotten THIS far without those things (in general -- I don't know what they're doing for process communication naturally). There are obviously some issues with their branching discipline but it's not obvious that these things are easily avoided when you've got a mixture of super-hot fixes (things that fold into low-test high urgency hotfixes), high systemic urgency things like runes and itemization, a host of medium urgency things like essential quest fixes but are difficult to replicate unless you have 200,000 people doing stupid stuff to spider eggs, even more low urgency but quick and dirty easy to fix things, and just oddball things like the art department deciding that hey the recall flyout would look so much better on the left than the right. It's not a trivial task by any means. I suppose my own irritation mainly gets triggered when things are identified on the PTR but make it live. I expect issues as features are folded in, but when you crowdsource your testing, that's the time you have to execute even better because folks are paying attention. I personally don't know if PTR is all that useful, but I've been somewhat conditioned by Blizzard in this respect. As far back as I can remember (and one of the reasons I quit playing) was when people would report issues with classes on the PTR and not only did they go live, but Blizzard EMBRACED them. It became painfully obvious that PTR was a marketing tool, and not an honest effort to test anything. I think Carbine behaves better in this respect thus far, but it's still painful when I see things like the crafted weapon runeslot addition bug go live. | |} ---- I never look at my LAS except when changing skills around to test a different rotation. I'm like you and use a gaming keypad (Orbweaver) or my Anansi keyboard. I don't look at my hands/skillbar when fighting so it makes no difference to me if the icon is there or not. | |} ---- I think their issue is that the last about month has been awash with people saying they'd rather deal with small bugs ironed out in hot fixes than have the drop delayed for another week or more. Sometimes, I think the devs are listening too closely. | |} ---- ---- ---- It may interest you to know that the people that you're quoting for their explicitly broken promises have both also explicitly stopped working at Carbine for reasons that they have explicitly promised have nothing at all to do with being unable to live up to their promises. And I once said "It must have sucked to be a troll before there was an internet". I'm pretty sure Nietzsche couldn't hear me, unfortunately. I'm sure he would've appreciated the modern terms to describe people who practice the kind of polemics that were his bread and butter. If you are suggesting that now you'll never be able to take Carbine at their word, all I can really say is: you never should have done that in the first place, silly. When people tell you they're going to do something that many people before them have also said they'd do but then proven unable to live up to, skepticism is appropriate. | |} ---- It's the holy grail of MMORPG programming. If it takes you a month to develop content, a month to do implementation and alpha, then a month to do QA, it is theoretically possible to have all three going on at once and thus release content monthly. Obviously, that doesn't work once one thing goes wrong and goes the wrong way up the pipe, suddenly doubling someone's workload. Still, it must seem so ATTAINABLE to software development houses. If they could just get everything to work smoothly. Alas, as easy as it looks, everyone dials back expectations eventually. I actually thought Carbine was going to pull this off until Drop 3 got pushed back. Given a year, they might have ironed out the launch bugs. Maybe they can pull off bi-monthly? Without the huge amount of bug fixes, they could get this to work. I mean, if they could pull of a Drop 3 kind of drop every two months, it might be worth it. Or it might be better to stagger content. Release little things monthly to hold us over until a huge quarterly drop. | |} ---- ---- ---- Yea, this is slightly different. Let's try this: You have a boy/girlfriend and are mad in love with her. You tell her you love her. Over the three months of your relationship, things slowly break down, for whatever reason, and at the end you can hardly stand the sight of each other. You split up. Were you lying when you said you loved her three months ago? Things change. Plans made do not account for all variables. If you can't accept that without assuming you were lied to you must have a hard time living in the real world. | |} ---- In fairness, Nietzsche had a hard time living in the real world too. | |} ---- That escalated quickly! | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Just been reading the WoW forums. Oops! I think is the word. Seems it's rather broken! | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Really sorry to hear about this. Had mine done and I was worried but only took like two days. So best of luck. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Like when we're at work trying to shrink these ADA bathrooms as small as possible. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ----